Sweet, so sweet.
Perhaps this exchange will amuse you as much as it did me…
It seems like you have some insight into Harry Craddock’s recipe books.
First, do you know, as we have inferred, if the Corpse Reviver No 2 is
one of his original cocktails?
Second, do you know if the recipe dates from his time in NY or if it
shows up after his move to the UK?
Lastly, can you think of any instances of Kina Lillet/Lillet showing
up in American cocktail books before prohibition?
Some questions we all have regarding Lillet!
All the best,
Three great questions. I’ll take a look through the files and get back to you.
Jared Brown and Anistatia Miller
I took a look through Hugo Ensslin this AM and found no Kina Lillet/Lillet.
Plenty of Dubonnet and other more esoteric ingredients & liqueurs, but no Kina Lillet.
Also, interestingly, though I have identified sources for many of the recipes in the Savoy Cocktail Book, (Ensslin, Thomas, McElhone, Judge Jr, etc.) up to now, none of the Savoy Cocktail Book Kina Lillet/Lillet recipes have yet been identified as coming from any other source.
Hmmm, I guess Craddock was not just the world’s largest Hercules and Caperitif fan at the time, but maybe the world’s first Lillet Brand Ambassador.
Truer than you realize. Craddock appeared in 1930s ads for Lillet in a UK trade magazine.
Then, as now, it seems, finding brand name ingredients in a cocktail book recipe is generally more of an indication of an advertising or sponsorship deal with the author or publisher, than anything else.
Previous Lillet Posts:
In the previous Lillet Post, Kina Lillet, 2012, we talked a bit about David Embury.
His two quotes which contributed to the discussion were as follows:
“My own favorite French vermouth today is Lillet (pronounced lee’lay) made by Lillet Freres of Podensac, France. Do not confuse it with the Lillet aperitif made by the same company and originally sold under the name of Kina Lillet.”
“In commenting on Lillet vermouth, I warned not to confuse this brand of vermouth with the aperitif wine, originally known as Kina Lillet but now called simply Lillet. If, by accident, you get a bottle of the wine instead of the vermouth, what do you do with it? Well, here are a few of the old-time recipes using Kina Lillet. I definitely do not recommend any of them.”
It now appears that the Lillet company DID produce a vermouth during the middle part of the 20th Century.
Page 207 it explains that, at some point after 1945, there was indeed another type of Lillet, “Lillet dry type canadien” at 18°. The bottle had a green label similar to Martini extra dry. It was an aperitif based on French vermouths such as Noilly Prat. So clearly David Embury was referring to this French vermouth-style Lillet in the Fine Art of Mixing Drinks (1948).
So, what does that mean?
Well, first, and most practical, if there are any recipes where Embury calls for Lillet other than in those “old-time recipes”, you should instead use Noilly Prat vermouth.
On the other hand, it means those comments from Embury are of no consequence regarding any inferences about the nature of Kina Lillet, Lillet Blanc, or Lillet in the US before prohibition, the UK during prohibition, or the US after prohibition.
However, the main question remains:
What version of Lillet would have been available in America before prohibition and in England during prohibition? And, ultimately, does the current product reflect the Lillet that might have been available at either of those times?
Previous Lillet Posts:
So, um, there’s this thing where the San Francisco Giants are playing in the World Series.
The fourth game of the series falls on the last Sunday of the month.
Because Alembic doesn’t have a TV, and I figure pretty much every San Franciscan will be watching the game, we’re going to move it to the first Sunday, November 4th.
However, to make up for this move, we are planning a special event with Appleton Rum.
We will be featuring specials on 7 delicious Savoy Cocktails and a punch all made with Appleton Reserve Rum.
Pretty awesome list, no? Not a cocktail on there I wouldn’t gladly drink!
Hope to see on November 4!
The last Sunday in September, the 30th, is fast approaching, which means it is time for another Savoy Cocktail Book Night at Alembic Bar.
Your night to pick any random cocktail from the entirety of the Savoy Cocktail Book, be it a classic or some bizarre combination you can’t imagine the taste of, and we will make it for you, for better or for worse. There will be Hercules!
Come on in, the water’s fine!
The Savoy media blitz continues with an article on eater!
In addition to everything I say there, I’d like to thank the lovely Mrs. Flannestad for her love, support, and frequent late night pick ups at sundry bars, restaurants, and random locations.
I really couldn’t do anything without her and her support!
Over the last few years, much ado has been made about whether the modern version of Lillet Blanc is the same as the product that used to be called Lillet or Kina Lillet.
I, in particular, have rubbed some people the wrong way by suggesting that old cocktails which call for “Kina Lillet” are more interesting when made with Cocchi Americano. I went so far as to attempt to make my own version of “Kina Lillet” during the brief Cocchi Americano drought of a few years ago.
Collecting some recent conversations regarding Lillet…
The current Lillet company line is that Lillet has only ever produced a product more or less exactly like the current version of Lillet Blanc, whether it is called Lillet, Kina Lillet, or Lillet Blanc. However that contradicts much of what has been written about Lillet in the past.
For example, the Lillet website used to contain a timeline which goes as follows:
1872 Company founded
1887 Lillet formula created
1895 Lillet launched in Bordeaux
1895 In the US and West Indies “Lillet Export Double Quinine” marketed
as a tonic wine
1909 Two products available in Europe, Kina Lillet and Sauternes Lillet
1920 “Lillet Dry” created and introduced in England, “to suit English
tastes, especially when mixed with gin.”
1962 Lillet Rouge created
1985-86 Lillet modernized its manufacturing facilities and Lillet
Blanc reformulated, “…fresher, fruitier, less syrupy, less
In addition, the New Bordeaux website has a detailed, and seemingly well informed
history regarding the product.
“The drink was invented by two brothers, Paul and Raymond Lillet, who were distillers producing a range of fruit eaux-de-vies. In the 19th century, Bordeaux was the most important port city in France, and fruits and spices were coming in from all over the world, giving them access to a range of exotic fruits and spices to distill and turn into liqueurs. Five years after setting up the distillery, they came up with the recipe for an aperitif made from the plentiful local wines, mixed with the very fashionable quinine (tonic water had been granted an English patent in 1858, and quinine continued to be seen as a healthful tonic, and pretty much the only treatment against malaria and other fevers, until after World War II), plus a range of fruit liqueurs. As the 20th century got underway, they stopped making the other eaux-de-vie and concentrated just on Lillet Blanc.”
“In 1985, Bruno Borie, owner of Chateau Ducru Beaucaillou, bought the
business from the Lillet family (some of whom still remained working
in the company. Pierre Lillet, the 93 year old grandson of the
original owner, and previous cellar master himself, still comes by the
offices every day to see how things are going, while other members of
the family have long been among Bordeaux’s most important courtiers,
or wine brokers).
“The first thing Borie did was relook at the recipe of Lillet Blanc
and make it fruitier, lighter, less sugary but also less bitter, as he
reduced the levels of quinine – to achieve the balance of sweetness
and sourness that it has today. A Reserve Jean de Lillet Blanc was
also created, that more closely resembles the original recipe, tasting
somewhere between a Sauternes and today’s Lillet aperitif. With the
new recipe, he relaunched the drink. At the time, sales were 24,000 in
France, but when he sold it in 2008 (to the Ricard family of
Pernod-Ricard), sales had reached 400,000 in France, with another
400,000 overseas. When it featured in 2006 film version of Casino
Royale, where Daniel Craig asking for a martini with Kina Lillet,
sales particularly in the US shot up by 20%.”
One of the keenest points that the Lillet company and their promoters are currently making is that the product now known as Lillet Blanc did not change in the 1980s. Borie did modernize the production facilities for Lillet, but the character of Lillet Blanc did not change at that time. All he did was re-market the product with catch phrases that would appeal to a younger demographic interested in beverages that were “fruitier, lighter, and less bitter”.
However, Lillet in the 1980s isn’t of particular interest to me. I’m more interested in what Lillet might have been like in America before prohibition and in the UK and Europe during prohibition. That’s when most of the drinks I have any interest in were created.
No one less than David Embury states in his 1948 “Fine Art of Mixing Drinks”, “My own favorite French vermouth today is Lillet (pronounced lee’lay) made by Lillet Freres of Podensac, France. Do not confuse it with the Lillet aperitif made by the same company and originally sold under the name of Kina Lillet.”
Embury, goes on later to say, “In commenting on Lillet vermouth, I warned not to confuse this brand of vermouth with the aperitif wine, originally known as Kina Lillet but now called simply Lillet. If, by accident, you get a bottle of the wine instead of the vermouth, what do you do with it? Well, here are a few of the old-time recipes using Kina Lillet. I definitely do not recommend any of them.”
It seems clear that there were definitely two white Lillet products available in the US when Embury was writing in 1948. I guess the only question is, “which do we have now?” Embury’s favored “Lillet Vermouth”? His despised “Lillet/Kina Lillet”? Or something else?
Along those lines, I remembered there was a quote from Kinsley Amis on the subject of Vesper. Something like, Ian Fleming must have made a mistake in specifying Kina Lillet for the drink. David, from Summer Fruit Cup, was kind enough to track it down for me. It’s from Amis’ “The Book of Bond”.
“The original recipe calls for Kina Lillet in place of Lillet Vermouth. The former is flavored with quinine and would be very nasty in a Martini. Our founder slipped up here. If Lillet Vermouth isn’t available, specify Martini and Rossi dry. Noilly Prat is good for many purposes, but not for Martinis.”
Finally, a friend of mine on the eGullet forums, FrogPrincesse, has turned up a book, in French, solely devoted to the history of the Lillet brand.
Some of her comments regarding the book, “Lillet, 1862-1985: Le pari d’une entreprise girondine by Olivier Londeix”
“It looks like there is an entire book devoted to Lillet that covers
the 1862-1985 timeframe (in French). According to the book,
Kina-Lillet was originally created under the name “Amer-Kina”. The
book describes how the formula was adapted to the taste of the public
in the early 1900s (“originally it was more bitter, but ladies would
not drink it”), with an adjustment to its quinine content and
resulting bitterness. It later mentions that two different formulas
were available at some point, the “dry export” (English formula) and
an “extra-dry” version that is more recent. Somewhere else it
mentions that both the original formula (aperitif classique) and the
English formula (Lillet goût anglais) were both served at the Cafe de
la Paix in Paris in 1938 depending on the clientele.”
“English-style Lillet (“goût anglais”) marketed in England differs
from the product consumed in France. « In France we need the kina to
have a little more substance and to be a little sweeter in order to
withstand the mixtures that consumers unfortunately require to consume
our product, because it is quite obvious that a gourmet would never
blend our Kina with anything; in England we are told that our Kina is
drunk with gin as a cocktail. »”
These passages present us with another problem. If Lillet was sending a different style of Lillet to England in the 1920s and 1930s and Harry Craddock was bartending at the Savoy in London at the same time, maybe the “English-style Lillet” is the one we should be making the Corpse Reviver (No 2) with!
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter all that much to me whether Modern Lillet Blanc is the same as Kina Lillet from the early part of the 20th Century or the Lillet sold in England in the 1930s. I mean, modern Lillet Blanc is a perfectly fine product and works well in some drinks. However, I happen to prefer Cocchi Americano or Tempus Fugit‘s Kina l’Avion d’Or when having an aperitif or mixing certain classic cocktails. That’s just my personal preference.
Bonus Cocktail Recipe involving neither Kina Lillet nor Cocchi Americano!
Ostensibly, the second most famous cocktail calling for Kina Lillet is Harry Craddock’s Corpse Reviver (No 2). Usually composed of equal parts Gin, Cointreau, Lemon, and “Kina Lillet” with a dash or two of Absinthe, it is a delightful and refreshing cocktail.
The other night, a couple friends were hanging out near my coworker Trevor Easter’s station. He started by making them Bronx variations, but somehow ended up making different variations on the Corpse Reviver (No 2), swapping in different elements for the “Kina Lillet”.
One of the variations caught their fancy enough that they coined a name for it.
3/4 oz London Dry Gin;
3/4 oz Cointreau;
3/4 oz Cynar;
3/4 oz Lemon Juice;
1 dash Absinthe.
Shake and strain into a cocktail glass.
Imagine that, a cocktail with Cynar, and I didn’t even come up with it!
Savoy Sundays return to Alembic Bar (1725 Haight Street San Francisco, CA 9411), today, June 24th. Be there after 6 PM, it’s a truly Herculean affair.
1 Stick Cassia Cinnamon, crushed
2 tsp. Coriander Seed, crushed
3 Cardamom Pods, crushed
8 Whole Cloves, crushed
1 tsp. Quinine Powder
1 tsp. Gentian Root
1 tsp. Fennel Seed, crushed
1 package Peppermint Tea
1/4 Cup Yerba Mate
Zest 1 Valencia Orange, 1 Tangerine
1/2 cup Raw Sugar
750ml Quady Elektra
1/4 cup Apple-Ation California Apple Brandy
METHOD: Combine spices, peel, yerba mate and wine. Heat to 160 degrees. Filter through chinois and add Brandy. Let stand for at least a day and then enjoy chilled or where “Hercules” is called for.
From the Savoy Cocktail Book:
“This ancient Silver bowl of mine, it tells of good old times,
Of joyous days and jolly nights, and merry Christmas Chimes,
They were a free and jovial race, but honest, brave and true,
That dipped their ladle in the punch when this old bowl was new.”
Thus runs the old drinking song by Oliver Wendell Holmes, a song among many that have lauded the old time jollity of Ye Punch Bowl.
The proper preparation of Punch requires considerable care: but there is one grand secret in- its concoction that must be mastered with patience and care. It is just this, that the various subtle ingredients be thoroughly mixed in such a way) that neither the bitter, the sweet, the spirit, nor any liquor be perceptible the one over the other. This accomplishment depends not so much upon the precise proportions of the various elements, as upon the order of their addition, and the manner of mixing. Below are given a selection of famous old Punch recipes worthy of careful study.
The next two sections of the book are “Punches.” and “Prepared Punches for Bottling”.
I haven’t quite figured out what to do about Punches.
There are about 15 in the book, most for larger groups of people.
I guess I could have a Punch party every week for the next 15 weeks, but that seems difficult, not just from a cost perspective.
Or I could scale them down to serve 3 or 4 people.
In any case, while I sort this out, I will probably skip ahead to the last section of the book, the “Cups”.
Got a question from another gentleman on a cocktail quest of his own, over at Cocktail
It covered a couple things I originally meant to say in the “Frappe” post, so I will split it off as a post on its own.
I had completely blanked on the term ‘jiggling’ when it came up in conversation. Someone mentioned that a bartender had done it and it looked funny for stirring, and I explained the technique minus the name. I have read it several times but only saw it once before this — John Gertsen made a Spanish anise spirit laden drink like that (but not as vigorous as you did it). Is the technique specific to the absinthe/anisette/pastis-heavy drink family?
Thanks for the comment, Frederic!
To me, “jiggling” and “swizzling” are pretty much the same, one term
from the soda fountain culture and another from the Carribean, just
using different tools.
Interestingly, the quote describing jiggling in the post comes from
Clisby Arthur’s writeup of the Julep.
In bartending, it seems like jiggling and swizzling are techniques
which are used almost exclusively with crushed ice drinks.
Though I think in soda fountains the technique is also used for things
like Egg Creams, where the jerk is trying to create a head on a fizzy
Regarding the vigor and length of my “jiggling” technique, heh, it’s
mostly because my ice is completely dry and coming pretty much
directly from a freezer at -5 degrees Fahrenheit. Also, the ambient
temperature of houses in San Francisco tends to be on the chilly side,
so it doesn’t aid much in melting.
If I don’t give things a pretty long mix, I get almost no dilution.
If I were using melty crushed ice in a warm bar, it would be a mistake
to “jiggle” for that long.
All the best,