Kina Lillet, 2012

Lillet Americano Comparison

Over the last few years, much ado has been made about whether the modern version of Lillet Blanc is the same as the product that used to be called Lillet or Kina Lillet.

I, in particular, have rubbed some people the wrong way by suggesting that old cocktails which call for “Kina Lillet” are more interesting when made with Cocchi Americano. I went so far as to attempt to make my own version of “Kina Lillet” during the brief Cocchi Americano drought of a few years ago.

The Quest for Kina Lillet

Kina Quest 2: Necromancing the Stone

Kina Quest 3: Compare and Contrast

Kina Quest IV: Enuff Iz Enuff

Kina Lillet Clone

Collecting some recent conversations regarding Lillet…

The current Lillet company line is that Lillet has only ever produced a product more or less exactly like the current version of Lillet Blanc, whether it is called Lillet, Kina Lillet, or Lillet Blanc. However that contradicts much of what has been written about Lillet in the past.

For example, the Lillet website used to contain a timeline which goes as follows:

1872 Company founded
1887 Lillet formula created
1895 Lillet launched in Bordeaux
1895 In the US and West Indies “Lillet Export Double Quinine” marketed
as a tonic wine
1909 Two products available in Europe, Kina Lillet and Sauternes Lillet
1920 “Lillet Dry” created and introduced in England, “to suit English
tastes, especially when mixed with gin.”
1962 Lillet Rouge created
1985-86 Lillet modernized its manufacturing facilities and Lillet
Blanc reformulated, “…fresher, fruitier, less syrupy, less
bitter…”

In addition, the New Bordeaux website has a detailed, and seemingly well informed
history regarding the product.

Lillet: the classic Bordelais aperitif

Some quotes:

“The drink was invented by two brothers, Paul and Raymond Lillet, who were distillers producing a range of fruit eaux-de-vies. In the 19th century, Bordeaux was the most important port city in France, and fruits and spices were coming in from all over the world, giving them access to a range of exotic fruits and spices to distill and turn into liqueurs. Five years after setting up the distillery, they came up with the recipe for an aperitif made from the plentiful local wines, mixed with the very fashionable quinine (tonic water had been granted an English patent in 1858, and quinine continued to be seen as a healthful tonic, and pretty much the only treatment against malaria and other fevers, until after World War II), plus a range of fruit liqueurs. As the 20th century got underway, they stopped making the other eaux-de-vie and concentrated just on Lillet Blanc.”

“In 1985, Bruno Borie, owner of Chateau Ducru Beaucaillou, bought the
business from the Lillet family (some of whom still remained working
in the company. Pierre Lillet, the 93 year old grandson of the
original owner, and previous cellar master himself, still comes by the
offices every day to see how things are going, while other members of
the family have long been among Bordeaux’s most important courtiers,
or wine brokers).

“The first thing Borie did was relook at the recipe of Lillet Blanc
and make it fruitier, lighter, less sugary but also less bitter, as he
reduced the levels of quinine – to achieve the balance of sweetness
and sourness that it has today. A Reserve Jean de Lillet Blanc was
also created, that more closely resembles the original recipe, tasting
somewhere between a Sauternes and today’s Lillet aperitif. With the
new recipe, he relaunched the drink. At the time, sales were 24,000 in
France, but when he sold it in 2008 (to the Ricard family of
Pernod-Ricard), sales had reached 400,000 in France, with another
400,000 overseas. When it featured in 2006 film version of Casino
Royale, where Daniel Craig asking for a martini with Kina Lillet,
sales particularly in the US shot up by 20%.”

One of the keenest points that the Lillet company and their promoters are currently making is that the product now known as Lillet Blanc did not change in the 1980s. Borie did modernize the production facilities for Lillet, but the character of Lillet Blanc did not change at that time. All he did was re-market the product with catch phrases that would appeal to a younger demographic interested in beverages that were “fruitier, lighter, and less bitter”.

However, Lillet in the 1980s isn’t of particular interest to me. I’m more interested in what Lillet might have been like in America before prohibition and in the UK and Europe during prohibition. That’s when most of the drinks I have any interest in were created.

No one less than David Embury states in his 1948 “Fine Art of Mixing Drinks”, “My own favorite French vermouth today is Lillet (pronounced lee’lay) made by Lillet Freres of Podensac, France. Do not confuse it with the Lillet aperitif made by the same company and originally sold under the name of Kina Lillet.”

Embury, goes on later to say, “In commenting on Lillet vermouth, I warned not to confuse this brand of vermouth with the aperitif wine, originally known as Kina Lillet but now called simply Lillet. If, by accident, you get a bottle of the wine instead of the vermouth, what do you do with it? Well, here are a few of the old-time recipes using Kina Lillet. I definitely do not recommend any of them.”

It seems clear that there were definitely two white Lillet products available in the US when Embury was writing in 1948. I guess the only question is, “which do we have now?” Embury’s favored “Lillet Vermouth”? His despised “Lillet/Kina Lillet”? Or something else?

Along those lines, I remembered there was a quote from Kinsley Amis on the subject of Vesper. Something like, Ian Fleming must have made a mistake in specifying Kina Lillet for the drink. David, from Summer Fruit Cup, was kind enough to track it down for me. It’s from Amis’ “The Book of Bond”.

“The original recipe calls for Kina Lillet in place of Lillet Vermouth. The former is flavored with quinine and would be very nasty in a Martini. Our founder slipped up here. If Lillet Vermouth isn’t available, specify Martini and Rossi dry. Noilly Prat is good for many purposes, but not for Martinis.”

Finally, a friend of mine on the eGullet forums, FrogPrincesse, has turned up a book, in French, solely devoted to the history of the Lillet brand.

Some of her comments regarding the book, “Lillet, 1862-1985: Le pari d’une entreprise girondine by Olivier Londeix”

Lillet Topic on eGullet

“It looks like there is an entire book devoted to Lillet that covers
the 1862-1985 timeframe (in French). According to the book,
Kina-Lillet was originally created under the name “Amer-Kina”. The
book describes how the formula was adapted to the taste of the public
in the early 1900s (“originally it was more bitter, but ladies would
not drink it”), with an adjustment to its quinine content and
resulting bitterness. It later mentions that two different formulas
were available at some point, the “dry export” (English formula) and
an “extra-dry” version that is more recent. Somewhere else it
mentions that both the original formula (aperitif classique) and the
English formula (Lillet goût anglais) were both served at the Cafe de
la Paix in Paris in 1938 depending on the clientele.”

“English-style Lillet (“goût anglais”) marketed in England differs
from the product consumed in France. « In France we need the kina to
have a little more substance and to be a little sweeter in order to
withstand the mixtures that consumers unfortunately require to consume
our product, because it is quite obvious that a gourmet would never
blend our Kina with anything; in England we are told that our Kina is
drunk with gin as a cocktail. »”

These passages present us with another problem. If Lillet was sending a different style of Lillet to England in the 1920s and 1930s and Harry Craddock was bartending at the Savoy in London at the same time, maybe the “English-style Lillet” is the one we should be making the Corpse Reviver (No 2) with!

Ultimately, it doesn’t matter all that much to me whether Modern Lillet Blanc is the same as Kina Lillet from the early part of the 20th Century or the Lillet sold in England in the 1930s. I mean, modern Lillet Blanc is a perfectly fine product and works well in some drinks. However, I happen to prefer Cocchi Americano or Tempus Fugit‘s Kina l’Avion d’Or when having an aperitif or mixing certain classic cocktails. That’s just my personal preference.

Bonus Cocktail Recipe involving neither Kina Lillet nor Cocchi Americano!

Ostensibly, the second most famous cocktail calling for Kina Lillet is Harry Craddock’s Corpse Reviver (No 2). Usually composed of equal parts Gin, Cointreau, Lemon, and “Kina Lillet” with a dash or two of Absinthe, it is a delightful and refreshing cocktail.

The other night, a couple friends were hanging out near my coworker Trevor Easter’s station. He started by making them Bronx variations, but somehow ended up making different variations on the Corpse Reviver (No 2), swapping in different elements for the “Kina Lillet”.

One of the variations caught their fancy enough that they coined a name for it.

Creeping Death.

3/4 oz London Dry Gin;
3/4 oz Cointreau;
3/4 oz Cynar;
3/4 oz Lemon Juice;
1 dash Absinthe.

Shake and strain into a cocktail glass.

Imagine that, a cocktail with Cynar, and I didn’t even come up with it!

12 thoughts on “Kina Lillet, 2012

  1. It does seem, to me, that the Lillet line on Kina Lillet has changed over recent time (it wasn’t that long ago (less than ten years)that it was hard buy in the UK.

    There also seems to be a finer point of difference between more quinine and tasting more bitter.

    I’d love to hear some greater clarity on the subject and why current information contradicts writers like Embury, Amis and, previously, Lillet themselves.

    That said I may have at least worked out why sometime it was spelt Lilet.

    • Exactly. I’m willing to concede modern cocktail enthusiasts often get carried away with the romance of products which change or are no longer available, but I don’t see any reason for Embury, Amis, and Lillet themselves to make up a product which Lillet now claims doesn’t exist.

  2. This came up on Chowhound and the Lillet brand ambassador made the assertion that Lillet never changed. When I asked why her company’s website said otherwise, I got no response.

    One thing she did say was that she had tasted an old bottle of Lillet (which would have been in the heavier) quinine days, and it tasted no different to her. Luckily, they had a bunch more bottles and I got to try it at Tales 2011. It was definitely softer than you would expect but after 20+ years, it couldn’t have been the same thing as when it was put into the bottle.

  3. At 44 euros a bottle before shipping costs across the pond,if you can get them to ship it to you, Kina L’Avion seems a very high end substitute. Wouldn’t a combination of Lillet Blanc and Cocchi Americano,or Lillet Blanc and Jean de Lillet 2004 with a little flat tonic water thrown in be better substitutes,than any of the three standing alone?

  4. Thomas,

    I gave a link to the European distributor website, but Kina L’Avion d’Or is a product from the U.S. company TEMPUS FUGIT SPIRITS : http://www.tempusfugitspirits.com

    They are well distributed in the U.S.A. so you should find a better deal of course than shipping from Europe accross the Atlantic.

    TEMPUS FUGIT has a wonderful other product which is the Gran Classico Bitter. It’s a big improvment if you replace Campari with it in a Negroni for instance.

    Well… enough said… try them if you can and post your thoughts.

    • Thanks for the link. There’s a bar in New Orleans that serves it,and a distributor in Jefferson that sells it so hopefully in the near future I can procure a bottle. As for the Gran Classico Bitter as a sub for the Campari in the Negroni,I am thinking it might sub well in a Filby : 1 1/4 oz.Saphire Dry Gin,1/4 oz.Campari(or 1/4 oz. Gran Classico bitter instead?) 1/2 oz.Dry Vermouth 1/2 oz. Amaretto. Stir all with ice Strain into Cocktail glass.Flame the oil of a orange twist on top of the drink.

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